i'm thinking, after listening this morning, how i learned to stop worrying and love the fiscal cliff. is that where we are right now? >> you know, jim, this shouldn't be that hard. the idea that we've got to get a $4 trillio over ten years, with a mix of revenue increases, spending cuts. you know, when you look at the size of our economy, when you're looking at what's asked of people all across europe, uk, all in emerging nations, this is so small on a relative basis, that it's almost unamerican we're not going to be able to step up and get it done. you know, i'm optimistic that we're going to be able to avoid the fiscal cliff. we're not going to go over that, we're not going to see sequester, the challenge is going to be, is the deal going to be big enough, comprehensive enough that we take that minimum of $4 trillion off this $16 trillion debt over the next ten years. >> we're going to intervene, no matter what, in the trends of american business, meaning as soon as this one is over, we'll have a debt ceiling. because we can't get investment going in this country. that's why people